of apples and oranges........part 2

friends, dato and tanseri,

the more i listen to shaykh dr haitham al haddad's discourse on talaq, the more i can appreciate the degree of difficulties these boys in jakim, mais , maik etc and etc are faced with. 

they are a favourite punch bag for most ladies and even men!

talaq is a last resort, but islam ,unlike catholicism and to some extent judaism, recognizes that  marriages are not made in heaven.

some marriages are bound to fail due to mismatch ete etc  and etc....thus allah give us the privelege of talaq.

in england of ole it is not uncommon for the lords and barons to cement their wives into the walls of their castles, or arrange for them to be killed or poisoned!

such barbarism which still exist today in different forms....

listen carefully to the shaykh

dr nik howk

http://tafseerkoran.blogspot.com/2018/10/surah-at-talaq65part-2-with-shaykh-dr.html

............................................................................................................................

From: dato paduka biji sura
Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2018 6:20 PM
To: Nik Isahak Abdullah
Subject: Re: surah at talaq, 65............more deeper on talaq

Talak is rapidly going out of date. It was 'useful' in backward and tribal societies where women are considered second class, and men bully and ill-treat their women. Talak came from a 6th Century desert tribal society. 

But today , with science and technology changing society and economic arrangements within it, talak surely faces an inevitable and well-deserved challenge from thinking minds.  With women well educated and able to work (many are accomplished professionals and earn high income (and pay tax) would talak not be exposed for its imbalance, unfairness to women, and its blatant misogyny? 

Surely it has no place in a 21st Century society - where  women are equal before the law, are well educated, and are respected by men.

....................................................................................................................................

On Tue, 9 Oct 2018, 18:24 Nik Isahak Wan Abdullah, <drnikisahak@hotmail.com> wrote:

so what system do you suggest we use , dato paduka?

have you given time to listen to the good shaykh anyway ? 

that talaq is given to man only for a reason allah knows best.

otherwise all of us will be divorced many times over!

....................................................................................................................................

---

From: dato paduka biji sura
Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2018 6:33 PM
To: Nik Isahak Abdullah
Subject: Re: surah at talaq, 65............more deeper on talaq

dr nik , i don't waste my precious time listening to  him or people like him......

It is up to us in each society to think of the most fair and human solution for ourselves, right?  Why should we allow ourselves to be dictated today by people who lived in the past, and under different circumstances and level of enlightenment? Should we not bear the responsibility ourselves for our own lives?

Surely this is so obvious! 

......................................................................................................................................

On Tue, 9 Oct 2018, 19:18 Nik Isahak Wan Abdullah, <drnikisahak@hotmail.com> wrote:

you are suggesting secular humanism to replace islam.......

marriage as a civil activity, and divorce at the civil court , or forget about marriage altogether....technically we 'live in sin' , better.
anyway 'sin'  is a just a definition of the 'insane'.
or am i putting words in your mouth

you have a better system sans islam........civil society, religion is just an opium for the lowly masses.
where  and when do you get this 'germ' germinated in your mind, dato paduka?

was it too much schopenhaur, immanuele kant, george bernard shaw , betrand russel or your favourite john stuart mill during your cambridge days??

cannot be karl  marx...

---

From: dato paduka biji sura
Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2018 7:25 PM
To: Nik Isahak Abdullah
Subject: Re: surah at talaq, 65............more deeper on talaq

So, you are for chopping off limbs?  That makes for a better society? 

..................................................................................................................................................

On Tue, 9 Oct 2018, 19:38 Nik Isahak Wan Abdullah, <drnikisahak@hotmail.com> wrote:

yes, yes.....if we are 100 % muslims  or majority  of  country agree to shariah....... yes, yes.

    and why not? our prison system is not working. i was talking to an ex prisoner the other day. 

    5 to  6 to a room with hardly elbow room to move is the norm. 
    dsai , when he was in sungai
    buluh had the pleasure of staying in the sick bay all the time. now that he is out , he is really up
    and about.
    unfortunately or fortunately for us , he is destined to be our next pm , but that is another story
    worth another blog issue for me to ponder on.

    but back to the syariah dato paduka, if it cures human ills , why not?

but that is an utopian dream.... because we will never be 100 %, not even 40 %..... because we have so called 'muslims' like you who would not agree.....and you guys are sizeable, i suspect.

and 100 % or 70 % or whatever is not just the criteria.....there must be 1st justice and welfare...... a thief who is poor  and hungry will not be qualified to have his hands chopped......

back to my question dato.........when and where do you get this germ of secular humanism?
oxford, cambridge or penang free school or was it rmc ?

just my curiosity

---

From: dato paduka biji sura
Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2018 8:46 PM
To: Nik Isahak Abdullah
Subject: Re: surah at talaq, 65............more deeper on talaq

Yes, yes???!!!!!  omg dr nik.

..............................................................................................................................................

On Wed, 10 Oct 2018, 08:23 Nik Isahak Wan Abdullah, <drnikisahak@hotmail.com> wrote:

and this is something you can never comprehend dato paduka
but you will subsequently
when you are in that 6' by 2' hole in the ground, insyaallah
but then it would be too late my dear dato paduka

😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃

............................................................................................................................................

We all will die.

My end will come soon. Very soon. I am not perfect, but l think l have tried to live a decent life, doing some good, and doing no harm to others. 

So l am not afraid of the end of my life.

D

I hold two Degrees - a BA (Honours) in Economics and Philosophy, and an MA. 

Schools? The 125 years old Victoria lnstitute in KL.

Universities. Two ancient universities, Oxford and Cambridge

I hope it answers your question. 

........................................................................................................................................................................

On Wed, 10 Oct 2018, 19:23 Nik Isahak Wan Abdullah, <drnikisahak@hotmail.com> wrote:

....and that is not enough dato.

definitely not enough.

put yourself in the position as the ceo  and owner of the universe incorporated.
you have over the several milleniums,  90  to 100 billion slaves going thru the mill over time.

they live , procreate , and die.....

apart from YOUR rulings that they live and respect their brethrens who rub into their lives, ie their relation ship with fellow creations of his or her during his or her time on earth, YOU also set down ruling with respect to his relationship with YOU.

in your case you may have done very well with HIS creations but with respect to HIM, you don't even acknowledge HIS existence, let alone profess your love for HIM.

where should HE put you in HIS assessment?
your are a lousy slave. ain't you?!

Or (bethink thee of) the like of him who, passing by a township which had fallen into utter ruin, exclaimed: How shall Allah give this township life after its death? And Allah made him die a hundred years, then brought him back to life. He said: How long hast thou tarried? (The man) said: I have tarried a day or part of a day. (He) said: Nay, but thou hast tarried for a hundred years. Just look at thy food and drink which have not rotted! Look at thine ass! And, that We may make thee a token unto mankind, look at the bones, how We adjust them and then cover them with flesh! And when (the matter) became clear unto him, he said: I know now that Allah is Able to do all things.   al baqarah 256

........................................................................................................................................................................
 from dato paduka biji sura:

The truth is, doc, we will all die. After that we don't know. We can speculate, or even believe, in the hereafter. But it is belief, not knowledge. Nobody can know it. There is a big difference between knowing and believing. One should not confuse the two. 

..........................................................................................................................................................................

ok dato we may have to part company here.

i enjoy the discourse but it is not going anywhere since on richard dawkin's scale of faith or rather non faith you are 5.5/6

you put knowledge on the pedestal  way beyond and very much above everything else and this reminded me of the arrogance of the fools!
reasons are just conjectures build upon premises.
premises, though appearing iron clad to most, may be founded on unsound foundation!

the secular humanist loves their brains and trust them 100 %.
beyond the 'brains' and reasons there are nothing else to them!

what you cannot see, measure or quantify.....is not there.

i wonder what goes on in christopher hichen's " world now " that he has been 6 feet underground for 3 years now. he is your favourite atheist.

or is  he now just all molecules and gases which has dissipated back into the cosmos. 

to be just recycled?

no soul, no nothing!

omg!

i wonder how your world without souls is ever like.

what do people like you think when you wake up in the morning?

i know a great number just like me when we wake up, right away say a prayer of shukr and a prayer of atonement before even we get up to pee.

your world must be pretty lonely and depressing.

nothing to look forward to.....

just 6 months away or 3 years away and you will be nothing!!  ....that is pretty depressing.

at least that vagabond at the corner of your street in sri hartamas can dream of having a mansion in paradise with a garden through which a river flow,  with flowers and fruits in abundance.... even though in this temporal world, his only claim to fame is a few cardboard sheets which he can claim as his private space to rest his tired back on in the coldness of his lonely nights on earth, in a world full of materialism.

writing about 'vagabond' reminded me of the great abdullah yusuf ali...the great qur'an interpreter about almost a century ago.

for a few years before his death , he was a vagabond who plied his way in the streets of london.

on one cold wintry morning he was found critically ill from a heart attack in front of an apartment block near westminster hospital.

was admitted but subsequently died.

the bloody british being british can be trusted to be quite fair.

they discovered his true identity and informed the pakistani embassy staff who finally gave him a proper muslim burial and organized for his body to be buried alongside another famous muslim of his time....a contemporary, pickthal who died earlier.

i often wake up in the middle of the night thinking why abdullah yusuf ali had this kind of ending...this apparent allah's wrath rained upon him even in his earthly lifetime.

my only conclusion is that unlike pickthal who was very much  incarcerated by the british public and power of that day for not lending his weight and influence over the muslim diaspora within the empire to rise up against the ottomans, abdullah yusuf ali used his all to get the indian muslims all up in arms against  fellow muslims at the battle of galipoli.

this is just conjectural on my part but i cannot fathom of any other reasons.

but back to our discourse dato......

my story on abdullah yusuf ali is not to disparage a soul long gone to see his maker

but his story has a connection with our discourse.

excellent knowledge alone is not paramount.

google .com has more knowledge than all the rest of us put together!!

it must be spiced with wisdom.

this is what i humbly think pickthal had over abdullah yusuf ali.

wisdom, wisdom, wisdom.
knowledge is cheap, my dear dato paduka!

may their souls be blessed amongst the beloved and the blessed

insya allah

............................................................................................................................


from puan khatijah hanson of milton keyne, Uk

Today, 12:21 AM

You

Dr Nik,

I have said this before. You re wasting your time with lost souls like Dato Paduka. I am not sure he believes in the Quran even. He is a Malay I can presume and lives his life like a Muslim  exteriorly I assume but his faith in Islam is suspect.

According to Muhammad Assad of the book "Messages of the Quran" about kafaru & al-ghayb.

"Kafaru" as in Ayat 2-6, indicates "a conscious intent meant for those bent on denying the truth". The dato is one of them.

"Al-ghayb" as in Ayat 2-3, denotes all those phases of reality that lies beyond the range of human perception and cannot therefore be proved or disproved by scientific observations. Those accepted as speculative thought are such as

1. Existence of God

2. Definite purpose underlying the universe

3. Life after death

4. Real nature of time

5. Existence of spiritual forces and their interactions.

Only a person who can accept or is convinced that ultimate reality comprises far more than observable environment, can attain a belief in God.

By pointing out that the Quran is a guidance for those who believe in the existence of that which is beyond  human perception, the Quran remains a closed book to all those whose mind cannot accept this fundamental premise.

To me, from the years of discourse between you Dr Nik and  this Dato Paduka, I firmly believe that he is a non-believer. His mind is closed to the the quran , hadiths and teachings of the quran.

Once he is a non-believer, he will have suggestions which are based on pure "logic" that his mind can accept only from the knowledge he has. His knowledge is limited by what he knows. He doesnt believe in the spiritual.

I believe you re wasting your time on this man. Leave him be. Let him die as he wishes. He doesnt believe in the hereafter.


...............................................................................................


tq  puan hanson.
you are very kind.
i must admit to you that despite our arguments, i mean myself and the dato, we like each other very much!
i pity him actually.
it is not for want of trying....i have tried for years!
and it is not entirely dato paduka's fault.
i lack the intellectual and spiritual depth to get under and beyond his veil and armour

let us roast them all by the balls............

yang amat berbahagia tun,

allow me to extend our deepest appreciation for what you have achieved so far , for the nation, in your second coming.

and today you did put an excellent show at oxford.

as an astute  clinician of over 40 years, i was even trying to find fault  with your breathing...are you in early heart failure etc etc......and there was none. 
tun are in good health., alhamdullillah!

your rebuttal of what ails the muslim ummah with respect to leadership is superb and to the dot.

if i am one of the rulers doting the muslim nations , peppered around the globe, from timbuktu to brunei, i would  pee in my trousers!

jokes aside, i must admit that i was never one of your greatest fan . 
i must sincerely admit to that.

your dear mrs, tun dr hasmah could attest to that as i wrote to her a provocative letter many years back, during the ai-dr m debacle in the late 90's, when you were still at the pinnacle of power in your previous premiership.

admitted, at four score and thirteen, you have very little precious time left.

at your age and even mine, a year is like a decade.

people below you, pardon my expression, don't seem to have a clue ....we are worse than we were during the east asian economic crisis.

the ' benua chinese '  has their dirty hands on 'our balls' and not about to release their pressures.
their price is still 22 billion rm to be paid in one month!
they want their pound of flesh
they are worse than shylock of old!

jho low, if he is  still somewhere in china, in all probability he is, is probably down to his underwear now!......i would not be surprised of that.
the chinese politburo knows where he is.

china is highly militarized and police state. they even have registers for all 'cochroaches' and 'lizards' moving in the country.
it is highly impossible .for them not to know about this malaysian 'cochroach'.
' you pay 22 billion rm first, and we will hand over this cochroach that you want!'
in the mean time whatever jho low has will already have been milked out.
that is china's position.

ntr, insyaallah,  would not see the light of the day beyond the bamboo river resort, we all hope.... and we hope no monarch worth his salt, in future,  would have the audacity and temerity , to pardon him.

he should be and should remain a supreme example for decades to come for all malaysians  aspiring to be leaders, politiicans  and wanting to hold high office, to be reminded never again to repeat this kind of  utter nonsense

ringgit malasia, is a lost cause......kuala lumpur will be inundated by cheap hermes, birkins and prada in the flea market....there is not mch to be had there.

beyond both of them, my humble opinion is that a long jail term for all the other accomplices, from sri samarihan to lahad datu to kuala perlis, and the list is  certainly voluminous, would not solve our problem.

it is a wee bit expensive to keep and feed them at the resort nowadays.....there are too many of them.

and furthermore judicial justice will take years.......

let us figuratively 'squeeze their balls' where their money is.

we have to squeeze all these clowns dry to pay for their crime to the raayat.

get back every single cent possible.

people can  call it by any names, plea bargaining etc and etc.

they have to pay for their complicity in the world biggest financial fraud of all time.

.

after that give them the option of them going off to their overseas palaces and condos or else offer them free accomodation at reduced years in  bamboo  river resort.

let us start with sabah and sarawak and downtown kuala lumpur

there are some fat  cats there and here in KL.

i mean let us start with people having  acombined household bank account above 500 million rm , and then percolate down slowly but surely to the lowly  saeregars and the fendi's.

....of course not forgetting the 1amgedebe ceo, nasikandaapakahnamadiadah, who should spend the rest of his life in jail.

a very big jump from a 0.5 million rm per month numero uno, to room without a view at bamboo river resort.

at my last research, the average occupancy in a malaysian jail is usually 5 to 6 to a room, and they sleep elbow to elbow.....toilet is jst a hole in the ground at the right hand corner.
when someone pee or b.o, the rest have to look the other way.

we look forward to seeing him there.....6 to a room.
dsai was pretty lucky as he spent most of his time in the sick bay, akin to staying in a 25k rm a night presidential  suite at the st regis, sinapo!



sweep them carefully like a comb, tun.
we will forever doa for you both , dunia akhirat!
insyaallah.

warmest regards and may allah bless you and tun hasmah with a long and healthy lives!

dr nik isahak wan abdullah

other articles in previous years:

1.  https://drnikisahak.blogspot.com/2009/01/pearld-gem-cancer.html    

2.  http://drnikisahak.blogspot.com/2018/06/tok-bali-re-revisited-ecrl-najib-and.html

3.  https://drnikisahak.blogspot.com/2012/02/httpdrnikisahak.html

4.  https://drnikisahak.blogspot.com/2017/10/a-day-in-malaysian-history20th.html

5.  http://drnikisahak.blogspot.com/2018/05/of-malay-college-tunku-khursiah-college.html

of oranges and apples.........a conversation in cyberspace

From: Dato  sri  jg

Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 2:50 PM
To: Nik Isahak Abdullah
Subject: Who to vote for?


doc nik,

At a Zakir Naik event, a Malay woman asked the preacher,

"ln the election there are two candidates - a Muslim who is incompetent and corrupt, and a non-Muslim who is competent and honest. Which one should l vote for?"

Naik replied, "Of course, you must vote for the Muslim. If he is corrupt he will answer to God."

I saw this remarkable exchange on YouTube. 

What do you think? 

.....................................................

On Mon, 23 Jul 2018, 19:06 Nik Isahak Wan Abdullah, <drnikisahak@hotmail.com> wrote:

i will vote for tdm, dato.....anytime.

rather than that 'carbuncle'  that nearly bankrupt the nation.

😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃
anytime.

.......................................................... 

From:  dato sri jg
Sent: Tuesday, July 24,

You have very nicely evaded the question. 

...................................................

On 24 Jul 2018 22:49, "Nik Isahak Wan Abdullah" <drnikisahak@hotmail.com> wrote:

😄😄😄😄😄
dr zakir is not always right, dato

but he is a good man

years back we used to lose every theological debates with the trinitarians..i can still remember that.

we got hammered left right and centre.... 
people were beginning to say islam is a 'rubbish religion, founded by a paedophile, whose billions of adherents found nothing better to do than to go round a black box.
 round and round and round!
that seemed to be their life ambition and total preoccupation.
even your good friend syedharijumaatapakahnamadiadah also thought so!.

then came along ahmad deedat of south africa who knew the injeel  in all it's variations, old and new,and the taurat, like he knew  the back of his palms.

that was well before utubes and  misshapps and facebook!
we started winning debates

zakir naik is 5 times better.
he knows the qur'an, the bibles and all its variation
he knows bhagavid gita, and all other hindu scriptures better than the hindus 

oftentimes i ask myself why only we muslims have to be  so apologetic when we are  winning in the intellectual discourse...

is not ugama an intellectual discourse?  a search for truth...
and we are all looking for truth, not heresays from ulama, scholars, priests or monks...

just because a few ignorant  and biased hindraf people  are making  'animal' noise out there, we have to apologise and incarceraste the 'postman' !

dr zakir naik, despite his carbuncle , warts , and all...is allah's gift to the ummah
there may not be another zakir naik for decades!!!!

just my humble opinion dato... 



..............................................................

From: dato sri jg
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 11:17 PM
To: Nik Isahak Abdullah

I have watched his videos. You are right - he does know his scriptures well, and can quote it in accurate detail. It attests to an understanding of the text, and an unusually good memory.

However, it is well to bear in mind that memory is only the capacity to retrieve information. It does not necessarily imply logic or contemporary good sense. 

I have listened to his answers to questions posed by his many admirers. The less l comment on his values and good sense (as l perceive them) the better. 

.............................................................

On Thu, 26 Jul 2018, 23:06 Nik Isahak Wan Abdullah, <drnikisahak@hotmail.com> wrote:

one has to be generous dato.

memory, information and knowledge are cheap.
wisdom is priceless! 

he has superb photographic memory.
almost inhuman in quality and quantity. his wisdom is superb.

     he lives simply in a 2 bedroom flat in india.

the 'kufur west' and all the  'kufur east 'would like to incarcerate dzn because he can out debate them all  in their 'ugama'.

they have no rational answers to his responses of their own queries.

when you cannot beat a person , label him!
that is what these 'bastards' have doing since sayyid qutb, maududi etc etc up to morsi.

    this is not new.
    it is a game polished by the kuffur west and now joined by the kuffur east as well

    and if this game does not work, 'kill' them politically of even physically.
    too many examples abounds, across history.

tdm, if his idea of east economic caucus [eaec ] was successful 15 years back , would have been ripe for an 'organised accident' by the cia.
his idea didnt...the japanese chickend out!...so he survive.

saddam, ghadaffy were not too lucky.

they got their necks stretched! 


.........................................................................




Doc,

One should always be generous, l agree, but one must not idolise uncritically. 

A critical faculty is vital in a rational human being. It offers one a sense of realism and balance, and saves one from the silly excesses of adulation. 

........................................................................

On Fri, 27 Jul 2018, 03:54 Nik Isahak Wan Abdullah, <drnikisahak@hotmail.com> wrote:

i agree with you  dato
if you read me well dato i don t idolise easily...

what you are reading ,  a couple of sultans and a dozen  or so tansris also read.

i am at the age when i dont apologise anymore.....
reverence, if you notice, is not my cup of tea.

their egos oftentimes also got bashed every now and then.

i used to get 'dirty and angry letters from them .

but to me truth is more important than reverence...
if not for the change in the govt, i could well be eating nasi kawah in sungai buluh........




..................................................

---

From: dato jg
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2018 4:10 PM
To: Nik Isahak Abdullah
Subject: Re: Who to vote for?

Doc,

You must acknowledge that many, many Muslims in this country, even leaders, idolise ZN, and swallow uncritically everything he says as their 'belief nutrition' . This is what l find unpalatable. Perhaps you too might agree. 

Nothing that another homo sapiens says can merit total acceptance and uncritical adulation. Nothing. Wars, genocides, bigotry, backwardness, and untold cruelties and bloodshed, are all created by such kinds of uncritical acceptance and lazy thinking.

Some have argued that the Peloponnesian wars (4th Century BC) had been earlier carefully examined and debated. Up to a point, yes. They were - but only by the Athenians, who were a highly civilised and intelligent community. (Socrates and Alcibiades were among the soldiers.) But their enemy, the Spartans were among the worst hooligans of the time. (They later formed the core of the army of Alexander the Great of Macedonia.) 

Since then, wars and bloodshed had always been created by unthinking mass belief and hysteria. Because thinking through war issues, one can always find solutions that lead to peace. This is something warmongers and bigots do not like to see. 

...............................................................

On Fri, 27 Jul 2018, 21:02 Nik Isahak Wan Abdullah, <drnikisahak@hotmail.com> wrote:

credit must be given when it is deserved, dato.

you are not generous with dr zakir naik .

there is a science in religion, known as 'science of  apolegetics', propounded by the christian missionaries many decades ago to brow beat the muslims

they already had beaten the muslims in africa and asia and dominated them  physically and financially,but intellectually they have to devise a science to brow beat them at the mental level as well....thus the science of apologetics....

until ahmad deedat arrived on the scene  and brow beat the best of their pastors and ministers.

now that we have dr zakir naik who has a background and capacity times 5 times more than  the late ahmad deedat, why do we socalled muslims want to apologise!!!!

i cannot understand your rationale.......
   

.....................................................


 From: Dato  jg

Sent: Friday, July 27, 2018 10:21 PM
To: Nik Isahak Abdullah
Subject: Re: Who to vote for?

I have no patience with all forms of pretentions or bullying. 

.......................................................

you should study history, dato
the spanish inquisition etc and etc
the present state of affair 
who is bullying who ?

oftentimes with you dato, i wonder whether i am communicating  with a muslim or  with a non muslim.....😃😃😃😃. you dont seem to derive pleasure and comfort at all in being a muslim, i would have thought. everything about islam is negative.

you are missing the elephant in the room.
the muslims are being bashed left right centre from time immemorial!
more so today.
you mention you want the syariah...your ulama get droned...your country get decalred a pariah state.....the security council pass a resolution banning all forms of trade with you etc etc etc.
they get even cnn, bbc and aljazera  to incarcerate you  years before to lay the foundation for their actions etc  etc and etc..


.............................................

From: Dato jg
Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2018 11:33 PM
To: Nik Isahak Abdullah
Subject: Re: Who to vote for?

Hello doc,

It is strange that you should ask me to read about the Spanish lnquisition. Perhaps you do not know that l had spent four years at an ancient university studying Economics and Philosophy (and that included European history, including the Spanish lnquisition, and the backwardness and cruelties imposed by religion). 

As an undergraduate, I had also spent a whole summer in Spain, exercising my Spanish language, and visiting museums where l saw the actual instruments of torture used by the Catholic Church on scholars who used logic to think, or ask simple questions on the "teachings" of the Church. They sickened and horrified me to an extent you can never imagine. I discovered at that young age that reason and religion simply cannot co-exist. 

To quote to the well-known Nobel laureate in Physics, Steven Weinberg:

"Good men will do good things, and bad men will do bad things. But to do really, really bad things, you need religion."

By 'religion', one must also include beliefs and ideologies such as Communism, which has no room for honest enquiry and respect for logic and evidence. 

..........................................................

On Thu, 2 Aug 2018, 22:56 Nik Isahak Wan Abdullah, <drnikisahak@hotmail.com> wrote:

hello dato,

it is obvious we are apples and oranges.
by religion i mean personal faith.
faith in a god that is concurerntly personal as well as universal.

in my scheme of things, if i am in your position i would be feeling really depressed.
i am going into that 6 foot by 2 foot hole in the ground and i am confident there is no posterity  at all for me!

no accountability. no heaven and no hell...
beginning to sound like john lennon's paradisal home  high up in the sky! 

what is keeping me going now at even a relative young age of 66 is that hope , minute as it can be, but still a  possibility that in my other life i will be in ' a mansion that rivers of honey and milk flow underneath and i would have to take my  private jet just to survey my musang king estate, etc and etc...." 😊😊😊

.....on the contrary if i dont do well in this transient earthly life i will  be ' a bouncing baseball oscillating from in the  oven of hell , up and down , up and down, a journey of which is equivalent to 50,000  earth's years'😎😎😎

that description is not  from dante's inferno mind you dato ... . i think it is ibnu qayyim's, correct me if i am wrong.,

it is figurative of course dato.
hell or heaven, whatever it may be....it is certainly figurative beyond our comprehension, but certainly heaven and hell is not a metaphor.

in your world it sounds pretty constrictive,definitely depressing  especially when we go beyond our 3 scores and ten!

tell me dato how can i change your position?
really, i am sympathetic to your predicament.

dr nik

................................................................................

You

You replied on 8/3/2018 6:54 AM.

Dear doc,

I can see that you are a good person, a caring and decent man. And l thank you for your caring attitude.

First of all, l am not depressed with life. My health is reasonable for my advanced age, and l am fortunate in my family life - with lots of cucus to play with. 

I am just as fortunate with my five sons. When l reached the age of 70 they told me to my face that they will not allow me to pay for anything l need: THEY will pay all my bills through the family company. They said l have worked all my life to support them, and now they will look after me. I was deeply touched.  So l have no health or financial worries.

I now come to your point - am l not afraid of death? The simple answer is no. I am not. I have not done anything bad to anyone. If anything, l may have done. a little good to a few people. And I give to charities. 

Am l not afraid to be placed 6 feet in the ground? No l am not. I would be dead. If God is just He would not punish the dead (to come "alive" again, but without a "body" ) with eternal torture by fire. Why? Why? What is the point? Surely He is not an evil sadist! Surely He is Omniscient, Loving, and Merciful. Surely He does not believe in management by terror. Rather His nature would be more management by love. 

So the idea of hell-fire is incongruent. 

Instead, l think He would approve of the intellectual honesty of those who used the brain He gave to think for themselves - clearly, independently, and deeply.

No doc, l am not afraid to die. I know that my time will come very soon. I have lived a life with decency and, hopefully, will die peacefully. And, most probably, that will be the end of an insignificant human being like me. 

Thank you. 

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i am not giving up on you dato...

just give me a call if by chance you happened to wake one day on the right side of the bed, and "presto!..you find you want to change".

abu hamid alghazali, once, had this to say about sea shells:

" those who find sea shells will find sea shells. the few who open them will find pearls! "

found scrawled on a wall in ryogin temple , kyoto..
" when you change, evrything else change "

when will you change dato?

dr nik