Wednesday, July 20, 2016

still on the Failed Turkey Coup......

Re: before we move on to surah luqman.....uncle sam's long and dirty hands??

Azmi Wan Hamzah

Mon 12:56 PM

You replied on 7/18/2016 1:41 PM.
nikhowk,  you should ask nadzru and my brother - they may have valuable insight as both have, i believe, some relationship with fethullah gulen's educational charities specifically and the hikmet movement generally. i would be careful not to assume gulen would lend himself to imperialist conspiracies. recep erdogan, unfortunately, has not proven entirely impervious to the actonian maxim that power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. 

salam, azmi.


Re: before we move on to surah luqman.....uncle sam's long and dirty hands??

Nik Isahak Wan Abdullah

Mon 1:41 PM

Azmi Wan Hamzah (azmiwanhamzah@;


point  well taken ts.
but on friday night the whole turkey voted with the hands, feet and their lives for erdogan.
people are tired of military junta like asisi and mubarak who are impossible to vote out.

with erdogan, if the turks dont like him , they can vote him out next general election.

we in the muslim world cannot allow american and europeans to dictate who we choose to govern and run our lives
let alone have their dirty hands in our politics.
too many dirty american hands in too many muslim countries and diaspora already!

there is a lot at stake in turkey by virtue of its position , history and pedigree

i love fethullah gullen
read some of his books already
but i like erdogan more.
yes i do not think fethullah wants to run turkey.
if he does he should stand for election rather than undermine erdogan
but his boys and anak murid are.
and if they want to run turkey, do it thru an election...they have to win an election!

this is the 1st time turkey voted in some one who is proud to be muslim.
suleyman demirel, tansu cller bulent eccevit are all secularists.
eckbakan is muslim but does not have the suavity of erdogan to govern and persuade the masses
we have to give islam a chance...wart ,carbuncle and all
this is not a perfect world.
that is sunnatullah.

i believe we muslims should look at the big picture with turkey
the big picture with turkey is it is better off with erdogan in power than some military junta under the tutelage of america.

dr nik howk


From: Nadzru.azhari <>
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2016 1:46 PM
To: Wan Ariff 2
Cc: Nik Isahak Wan Abdullah
Subject: Re: conspiracy theory......'uncle sam' long and dirty hands!!??

Dear Nik Hawk, 

We have been oppressed for so long that  any radical popular person would seem to fulfil our search for self respect and dignity . It has gone rather deep into our psyche. I would not like to list them from , say, 1955 and after the Afro-Asia Conference in Bandung . We have had our fair share of radical populists worldwide all in the name and hope of our revival as an Ummah , if not as countries to be respected and given our due place among the society of nations . 

So , in Erdogan we see our hope and unfortunately a hope much soaked and drenched in romanticism . We are a chest beating  and wailing society , only differing in degrees of our passion and emotion. We then create Erdogan bigger than life . He  becoming our revivalist, a mujaddid that rose to the podium rostrum when the mass gathered upon  called by early azans from the minarets of The mosques of Istanbul and Ankara. 

Let us be fair with Brother Erdogan. Let us be fair to any good President and Prime Minister of Turkey in these latter days when they are perceived and indeed they are carrying the mantle of our Faith (I am avoiding using all the clichè words like Islam, muslim , etc).  They have their limits and these limits are not of the self  but the very Republic they are in and they are leading . Their limit is constitutional  and structural , embedded in the very foundations of the constituted Republic, built from a defeated rump of an Empire . Turkey today is a minion Republic , cobbled out of a defeated Empire's rump. Please it is not about a secular Kemalist Constiution just , instead it is also about a constitution which was crafted out of an unconditional surrender of the Ottomans , when Istanbul was  divided into four parts smaller than its  sum total and the new capital was moved to a small town of Angora in Asia Minor and renamed Ankara. What came out was a minion Republic of Condescension. Crafted as a modern democratic state of half measure, meant to be subservient to a European and American hegemony with a mind set trained to supreme colonisabilité  . It remained a backwater for so long, not doing better than its former 'sanjaks' and ' governorates' and also tutelage monarchy like Egypt. 

Come to latter days , it got slapped with NATO subsummation , becoming NATO's  provider of cannon fodder. It's economic growth was fueled by its tension into Turkic Central Asia , not westwards into Olde Europe,  for it failed to be admitted into the EU. It became the nerve centre and economic power house for the Turkic world , at the behest and condescension of the Western powers, with some perceived freedom. Turkey became physically elegant , cultured and with a semblance of civil order , beautiful cities , clean and well managed, even better than Olde Europe. 

The fidels got to work and they worked hard , from the grass roots to revive their faith and the religious sociocultural hold on their society . Erdogan and his peer group are now well known to all of us , from a lil earlier, Necmettin Erbakan, Torgut Ozal and social religious activist Fethullah Gulén a comrade and fellow activist with Erdogan . They did well and succeeded in debunking the oppressive half measure Republican structure of their society.  Their Faith returns to them and this seeps into their politics , foreign policy and in every 'mis en place' of their civil and sociopolitical structure. So far so good, but all that is happening under the allowed half measure Republican liberty of their country. Nothing is debunked out of their constitution, Kemalism and secularism is intact , the old fellow's busts are not removed from public places. It is still Kemalism with a 'Basmallah'.

Our brother Erdogan I believe got peeved with the moral niceties and straight as ladle uprighteousness  of their religiously imbibed people , which got entrained in a civil service sector that became too over enthusiastic with their work of moral défense and practice. He found in our Khoja Effendi particularly , a pain in the rectum. The Khoja left the country some time ago  in circumstances that are left to wide interpretation and when he left for the US the  interpretation became binary , he became the integer  side not the zero side, he is perceived as a US managed religious icon running what bro Erdogan calls a 'parralel government' in absentia. Unfortunately our poor Khoja has a a bit of difficulty to respond to Erdogan on why he is entrenched in the US. This difficulty is not doing justice to our Khoja and I am afraid of he does not leave  for , say, Jakarta or Kuala Lumpur , it is going  to be real haunting for him and he will be fodder for Erdogan's political onslaught. 

So please, Erdogan remains President of a minion Republic , that for as long as it is restricted to its DNA as a republic out of a surrender , he will not be a revivalist and a leader of the ummah. That said, it still makes him an excellent manager of a rump state that is not too bad to have and could be bettered to become like two other defeated countries with embarrassing imposed constitutions , Japan and Germany. 

Unfortunately coup d'état a are not sanitized and deaths are a collateral damage . Even if we are to say that it was staged, death is rather a discomforting matter and I  am not personally inclined to believe that Brother Erdogan would resort to a stage play that causes real deaths. 

So Nik Hock ,please do not be binary between Brother Erdogan and his coterie of Turks, home and abroad  in the latest coup d'état. 

Sent from my iPad
           nadzru azahari.


On 19 Jul 2016, at 3:25 PTG, Nik Isahak Wan Abdullah <> wrote:

           a lenghty rebuttal as always ru from you..
if i may ask what is the 'fuc........' wrong with  having a strong muslim leader leading a strong turkey ru, without being exactly rude?
even if it is a long while coming....
           dr nik howk


From: Nadzru.azhari
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2016 7:29 PM
To: Nik Isahak Wan Abdullah
Cc: Wan Ariff 2
Subject: Re: conspiracy theory......'uncle sam' long and dirty hands!!??

Nik Hock,

You call it a strong Turkey? A country that lives on NATO rental payments, Turkish Airlines , tourism , remittance income from the EU, low tech manufacturing of what China does not want?  The real wealth of Turkey is the Turkic states of Central Asia!  It is the Turkic not Turkish . It is Turkey umbilical attachment to Central Asia that gives it the strength , it's their hinterland.  

Fortunately the Turkic states have a better and less. humiliating history .  They were not cobbled out of a rump ,they became independent after Russian colonialism ,,actually schooled by the Russians and if I may,better under  a communist  fraternity than being a defeated state,  the constitution and national framework of the Turkic states are far better and free from historical disablements. Kazakhstan,Turkmenistan, Kirgizstan and the lesser  Stans are going to better equipped to come up without a debilitating history of defeat like Turkey and its historical baggage. 

I am sorry, a President of a  made to measure minion Republic of the rump Ottoman is just that , at best a minion  President  , with a larger than life reimaging and if he is a very good man of his faith , he remains a good man of his faith , certainly not a Caliph of his co religionists. 


Sent from my iPad


Re: conspiracy theory......'uncle sam' long and dirty hands!!??

Nik Isahak Wan Abdullah

Today 2:24 AM

Nadzru.azhari (;

Wan Ariff 2 (;

sorry ru for the rather strong language.

i have been following turkey from suleymam demirel, bulent eccevit days , right up to the demure looking but secularist skirt wearing , no-tudung, tansu ciller; then the islamist but unlucky eckbaken whose wife got censured for wearing a tudung......
a military coup ensured following the tudung issue.

and now erdogan who somehow has emasculated turkey's secularist armed forces  enough even when his wife wear a tudung, the military had no more wing ....until the last fateful  black friday.

turkic hinterland or no turkic hinterland, from the 'tudung perspective', ergogan has succeeded from his previous predecessors!
we have to give him time and space and not judge him prematurely because he now has a 'palace' here a house there.

i know fethullah gullen is your friend and he is a religious man.
even if he is not personally involve in this current coup, his anak murid that numbers in thousands are....
if he is likened to a tok guru, he has to be big hearted enough  and be a tok guru nik aziz  rather than a hadi that got easily sucked  by 'najib', in the name of his religion..

knowledge is cheap.....hikmah is god-given
if it is not there it is not there, does not matter how many times one rounds the globe!

humbly yours,

dr nik howk

ps : unfortunately ru, whatever we do now and in the future we will all be slaves of the west. thanks to the international monetary agreement and aided by the balfour agreement of 1917....

since you brought up this unsavoury issue of permanent slavery to the west on turkey i am bringing up this complex issue in the right context..

i am opening a can of worms
a pandora's box
go back to history to 1917, the balfour declaration...then move forward a wee bit to the inception of the international monetary agreement around post world war 1.

do enjoy shaykh hoessien....
he was an imam in new york pre 911.

we have to restart somewhere.
seriously ru, we have to start somewhere and stop this bickering over 'popcorns'!

[  ]

Fw: conspiracy theory......'uncle sam' long and dirty hands!!??

Nik Isahak Wan Abdullah

Today 2:21 AM


From: nadzru.azhari
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2016 12:23 AM
To: Nik Isahak Wan Abdullah
Cc:;;;;;;;;; Nik Azman Nik Abdul Majid - Dato'; husna_kassim51; Che Ibrahim Che Idris; Azmi Wan Hamzah
Subject: Re: conspiracy theory......'uncle sam' long and dirty hands!!??

Dear Nik Hock ,

I don't think anyone in the whole flat wide world,  least of all myself can accept a dismantling of a democratically elected government.  Even if he removes 100,000 teachers from their jobs I still say Bro Erdogan is the legitimate Président of Turkey . Military coups are not legitimate,  nether Egypt nor Turkey. Turkey military coup d'états  are  simply a scourge of the Turkish statehood. 

The Kemalist Republic of Turkey is simply non  competitive and viable. Erdogan is a self declaring Kemalist and secularist. He declared it and he declares it all the time. Nothing wrong with that. It will be to his detriment and his country 's sooner rather than later if thè Kemalist structure is not dismantled NOT because it is secular but because it is no good and outdated. His Kemalism with a ' Basmallah ' is not bad for the time being. 



From: Nik Isahak Wan Abdullah
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2016 2:18 AM
To: nadzru.azhari
Cc:;; niknathasha@gmail; aro@
Subject: Re: conspiracy theory......'uncle sam' long and dirty hands!!??


you yourself said that turkey has a baggage. the baggage is kemal ataturk, a product of a ??jewish father and a muslim mother, not surprisingly.
that baggage is a 'laknatulllah' to modern turkey.
the sheer grip of kemalism on turkey was devastating and take so long to erode...
eckbaken, was summarily taken over by the military just about 6 months after his wife was seen in parliement wearing a tudung.

our friend erdogan is not doing that badly by that standard.
we present day muslims must know who are our friends and who are our foes
not that we cannot sleep and do business with our foes but we have to be careful.

just now cnn announced pm najib is already on the junk list....and we all can agree on that.
the king of ksa , custodian of the two holy mosque and asisi certainly cannot be the standard bearer of good muslim governance.
so we have to fall back to erdogan, warts, carbuncle and all.

why do you think he survive the coup where one third of the generals were complicit in it and the whole white world was waiting for a positive result.
i was doing some simple arithmetic just now driving back from the hospital after attending to an emergency.

there are 3 million syrians turkey is feeding for the last 4 years, before europe even decide to help out just last month with some token remittance, not yet delivered. just at 30 euro per head minimum it work out to be 90 million euro per day erdogan govt is forking out.
when the serbians were having a killing field in bosnia hegezovina and raping their womens, erdogan and mahathir were  two strong personalities helping them out covertly with money and arms!

erdogan was saved by the grace and mercy of allah.
i pray we muslims  to give him a chance before we put him down in favour for an old imam who bivouked himself in pensylvania,usa and take 'distant shots' at this man.

mustafa kemal who died at just age 40 somethin of liver cirrhosis is history.
the new turkey will rise from the ashes of this failed coup, insyaaalah!
alhamdullillah! allhuakbar!

if one are not excited about this and looking at it with just disdain and scepticism,may i suggest one go back and revisit the 1st 18 ayat of surah albaqarah and think hard about it and reexamine one's soul.

dr nik howk

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